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>> my reference to -- >> answer the question wellesz senator hagel. the question is storywriter wrong? that is a pretty straightforward question. >> the nominee said that referred to his feelings about the war in general and not just the surgeon took heat abou his work with 00. hagel was as defeat is anti-american nukes. >> the position of 00, my position that certain individuals, nestle security leaders have talked about including himself, it has never been unilateral disarmament, ever. never. >> hagel backtracked on his comment about the political power of the jewish lobby. >> i should have used another term, and i'm sorry. i regretted. the use of intimidation, i should have used influence. i think that would have been a more appropriate term. >> coming into the hearing hagel was a controversy among many, so some fireworks were expected, but the number of senators on both sides said it was uncomfortable being in there as fox business labored to explain his past comments and votes. lori: fox news chief congressional correspondent, thank you. a recent
>> my reference to -- >> answer the question wellesz senator hagel. the question is storywriter wrong? that is a pretty straightforward question. >> the nominee said that referred to his feelings about the war in general and not just the surgeon took heat abou his work with 00. hagel was as defeat is anti-american nukes. >> the position of 00, my position that certain individuals, nestle security leaders have talked about including himself, it has never been unilateral...
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Feb 15, 2013
02/13
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the fact is that two reasons that senators are opposing hagel. one is lindsay graham, and senator iaot have real questions about benghazi, and the other hand senator has questions about hagel. both of those together, are causing real problem, and a lot of the wounded on hagel are self inflicted. lou: and waleed as you read that letter from white house revealing, that the president did no contact anyone in the libyan government, that he relied upon his secretary of state, who has said she had no role in the days affairs. what is your reaction? >> well, look, lou, we really don't have the big picture in details about what happened in benghazi. i keep repeating that the key point is, what was the perception of the administration of the threat existing? did they consider that our location in be benghazi is surrounded by 10 jihadi training centers and had taken all procedures or n? this would have to be answered. but is probably now the more important is statement by senator harry reid, in a time o war, in a time of threat against american, precisely
the fact is that two reasons that senators are opposing hagel. one is lindsay graham, and senator iaot have real questions about benghazi, and the other hand senator has questions about hagel. both of those together, are causing real problem, and a lot of the wounded on hagel are self inflicted. lou: and waleed as you read that letter from white house revealing, that the president did no contact anyone in the libyan government, that he relied upon his secretary of state, who has said she had no...
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Feb 1, 2013
02/13
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do you stand by those comments, senator hagel? >> senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you correct in your assessment? >> what i would refer to the judgment of history. >> deserves your judgment whether you were right or wrong about the surge? >> i'll explain why i made those comments. >> i want to whether or not they were right or wrong? >> the surge assisted in the objective. if we review the record. >> please answer the question. were you correct or incorrect when you said that the surge would be the most dangerous foreign policy blunder in this country since vietnam, were you correct or incorrect? >> my reference to -- >> the question is were you right or wrong. that is a pretty straightforward question. i would like you to answer whether you were right or wrong and free to elaborate? >> i'm not going to give you a yes or no answer. >> let the record show he refuses to answer that question. >> sean: and pretty unbelievable patrick j. buchanan and bill richardson. gentlemen, good to see you both. >> how are you
do you stand by those comments, senator hagel? >> senator, i stand by them because i made them. >> were you correct in your assessment? >> what i would refer to the judgment of history. >> deserves your judgment whether you were right or wrong about the surge? >> i'll explain why i made those comments. >> i want to whether or not they were right or wrong? >> the surge assisted in the objective. if we review the record. >> please answer the...
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Feb 4, 2013
02/13
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was wrong. >> what should hagel have said? what would you have told him to say? >> i think he said correctly, we're going to let history judge iraq, because frankly chuck hagel could have said, senator mccain, i think i might have been wrong on iraq. were you wrong on iraq? here's the question. none of that is anything that the next secretary of defense is going to deal with. hold on. let's split this into two buckets. there was the totalally out of context questions that won't bear on what the next secretary of defense will do. he seemed unprepared on the questions that quite frankly he knew were coming. >> he had mock hearings. should he go to the president and say, do you still have confidence in me? >> i'm reminded through weeks into his first term of the obama administration. time geithner gives a speech at the treasury department about our banking industry and how to save it. three weeks into the administration. three weeks into his tenure. the market dropped 382 points. two weeks ago, tim geithner walked out of the trea
was wrong. >> what should hagel have said? what would you have told him to say? >> i think he said correctly, we're going to let history judge iraq, because frankly chuck hagel could have said, senator mccain, i think i might have been wrong on iraq. were you wrong on iraq? here's the question. none of that is anything that the next secretary of defense is going to deal with. hold on. let's split this into two buckets. there was the totalally out of context questions that won't bear...
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Feb 4, 2013
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what about chuck hagel? chuck, you had leon panetta on "meet the press" this weekend, and martin dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs. let me ask both of you what kind of power that chuck hagel would have, assuming he gets confirmed? how does he move into this period where he has to really fight for resources from congress and also deal within the cabinet, deal with the white house? snoo that seems to be the real question now. it's not if he is going to get confirmed. the political votes are there. another republican came on board over the weekend. roy blunt will vote no, but not filibuster. the votes are there to confirm him. that is not the question. the question is he going to have the political swagger, if you will, that secretary of defense immediate to both operate inside the pentagon, and that's -- you heard robert gibbs, former press secretary yesterday say it was a little disconcerting watching him give those answers. they made a strategic decision not to have a debate with those republican sen
what about chuck hagel? chuck, you had leon panetta on "meet the press" this weekend, and martin dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs. let me ask both of you what kind of power that chuck hagel would have, assuming he gets confirmed? how does he move into this period where he has to really fight for resources from congress and also deal within the cabinet, deal with the white house? snoo that seems to be the real question now. it's not if he is going to get confirmed. the...
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Feb 2, 2013
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part of what hagel is arguing, not all wars are worth winning. we tend to discuss, as long as we won, that is fine, good enough. and his point is there is a cost, even to something that goes to that, as well. >> and he expresses it emotionally in the hearing, it is not just the fact that you can staunch the bleeding, it is the fact you need to treat the wound. and that is where hagel wanted to express he was coming from, there were some engagements that shouldn't be done. and we shouldn't think as view is, somebody should write us out of the main stream. >> you picked what hagel talked about, what he wants to do with the navy. it strikes me as important, as well. if you could play that. >> the navy is an indispensable part of our security apparatus. first it is the one unobjectable power we have in the world. obviously, our balances of the asia pacific, persian gulf, we talked all day about iran, specifically iran in the persian gulf. you know we have the fifth fleet, and bahrain, two little battle groups in that small area. the flexibility, the
part of what hagel is arguing, not all wars are worth winning. we tend to discuss, as long as we won, that is fine, good enough. and his point is there is a cost, even to something that goes to that, as well. >> and he expresses it emotionally in the hearing, it is not just the fact that you can staunch the bleeding, it is the fact you need to treat the wound. and that is where hagel wanted to express he was coming from, there were some engagements that shouldn't be done. and we shouldn't...
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Feb 3, 2013
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and chuck hagel. and you can not compare the first two to chuck hagel. after i watched the hearing, i remembered the lyrics to a country song. you mean i shaved my legs for this? you mean we're having this huge fight over this guy who cannot even articulate our policy towards iran? >> robert? >> let's be clear. >> this performance was not good. >> two things. i want to go about something that ana just said. if you turned on cspan and hadn't watched tv in the intervening six years, you would think we had 150,000 troops parked right now in iraq. this next defense secretary is not going to deal with iraq and the surge. this was a vanity thing for john mccain to try to prove to a former friend who disagreed with him that he was right on the surge and that chuck hagel was wrong. >> what should hagel have said? what would you have told him to say? >> i think he said correctly, we're going to let history judge iraq, because frankly chuck hagel could have said, senator mccain, i think i might have been wrong on iraq. were you wrong on iraq? here's the question.
and chuck hagel. and you can not compare the first two to chuck hagel. after i watched the hearing, i remembered the lyrics to a country song. you mean i shaved my legs for this? you mean we're having this huge fight over this guy who cannot even articulate our policy towards iran? >> robert? >> let's be clear. >> this performance was not good. >> two things. i want to go about something that ana just said. if you turned on cspan and hadn't watched tv in the intervening...
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Feb 1, 2013
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if hagel is in fact confirmed. >> bret: okay. big story not getting attention anyplace else but fox is american pastor in custody in iran. abatheny. his wife was on fox talking about how she wishes the u.s. government was talking more about this. >> it's unfortunate that we are hearing, we're not seeing more aggressive action from the government. i hope to see more of that. not just from the government but all over the world. this is a violation of the human rights. >> bret: he is american, in custody. in jail. in iran. steve obviously we had the 60 minutes interview with president obama and secretary clinton. that didn't come up. probably an opportunity. megaphone that he could have. >> among many other things that didn't come up. the government has to be clear-minded with this. declaring that this is unacceptable and making clear in any discussion whether it relates to nuclear program or anything else this is part of those discussions. you can't separate the nature of the iranian regime from the day-to-day actions. the obama ad
if hagel is in fact confirmed. >> bret: okay. big story not getting attention anyplace else but fox is american pastor in custody in iran. abatheny. his wife was on fox talking about how she wishes the u.s. government was talking more about this. >> it's unfortunate that we are hearing, we're not seeing more aggressive action from the government. i hope to see more of that. not just from the government but all over the world. this is a violation of the human rights. >> bret:...
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Feb 18, 2013
02/13
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secondly, with regard to the hagel nomination, unfortunately, chuck hagel is dealing with his own poor performance as a nominee now. all the way back to your original question. there are many people in the democratic party who don't agree either there are many people in the democratic party who are in disagreement right now on what too do about gun control legislation. on the issue of immigration specifically, i think the reason jo john mccain answered the way did he is because eight senators, four democrats and four republicans, have come together and put together a delicately balanced compromise that will pass. what will fail is either the right in congress or president obama in the white house try and push it too far one way or another to win points. then it's gonna come crashing down. that's, i think what john mccain meant. >> how does the president deal with the republican party he is now dealing with? >> i don't know. i think a lot -- everything here makes sense what we are talking about, because we are being reasonable here. we want to have an immigration bill. i think that's --
secondly, with regard to the hagel nomination, unfortunately, chuck hagel is dealing with his own poor performance as a nominee now. all the way back to your original question. there are many people in the democratic party who don't agree either there are many people in the democratic party who are in disagreement right now on what too do about gun control legislation. on the issue of immigration specifically, i think the reason jo john mccain answered the way did he is because eight senators,...
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Feb 5, 2013
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move by mccain and others now suggest hagel is going to have enough support to be confirm. the nomination is expected to go to the full senate floor this thursday. >>> last night in the book touring supreme court justice sonia sotomayor made a rare television appearance. she was on the colbert report. she talked about her childhood in the bronx, faith in the constitution, but she got a little bit coy when stephen tried to draw her into specifics. >> not all of us believe in the constitution. the second amendment is never to be questioned. do you believe that we have the right to have any weapon we want? >> well, you'll find out soon enough when the case comes up. >> this is what i like. this is what i like. >> all right. stick around. we're going to take a quick break. while we do, send us an e-mail and let us know why you're awake at this hour. you can also tweet me. we'll read the best responses later in the show. still ahead here, stadium blackouts, they're not just for football anymore. last night the lights went out during an nba game. we'll have that next in sports. >
move by mccain and others now suggest hagel is going to have enough support to be confirm. the nomination is expected to go to the full senate floor this thursday. >>> last night in the book touring supreme court justice sonia sotomayor made a rare television appearance. she was on the colbert report. she talked about her childhood in the bronx, faith in the constitution, but she got a little bit coy when stephen tried to draw her into specifics. >> not all of us believe in the...
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Feb 9, 2013
02/13
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chuck hagel is not that guy. >> hang on with me. we got much more to do. >>> four brave americans, here's where we're going. fouf four brave americans killed in benghazi. but incredibly, yesterday's senate intelligence committee hearings revealed for the first time that president obama as awol. hillary clinton also awol during that horrible benghazi night. and the secretary of defense, he apparently did nothing. his hands were tied. even the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, he apparently did nothing. his hands were tied. i don't know the story. the stuff that leaked out from panetta's testimony yesterday was incredible. we will talk about it after this short break. i'm lorenzo. i work for 47 different companies. well, technically i work for one. that company, the united states postal service®, works for thousands of home businesses. because at usps.com®, you can pay, print and have your packages picked up for free. i can even drop off free boxes. i wear a lot of hats. well, technically i wear one. the u.s. postal service®,
chuck hagel is not that guy. >> hang on with me. we got much more to do. >>> four brave americans, here's where we're going. fouf four brave americans killed in benghazi. but incredibly, yesterday's senate intelligence committee hearings revealed for the first time that president obama as awol. hillary clinton also awol during that horrible benghazi night. and the secretary of defense, he apparently did nothing. his hands were tied. even the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff,...
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Feb 7, 2013
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we'll have plenty of time i'm sure to talk about chuck hagel. meantime, let's take the audience to the senate hearing and senator dianne feinstein. >> because of the added importance of having steady leadership at an organization that conducts most of its business outside of the public arena. intelligence is critical to the successful draw down in afghanistan, to the brutal war going on within's syria's borders, across north africa where the attacks of benghazi and hostage situation in algeria threaten to spread in to the next front of al qaeda and its affiliated groups. for counterterrorism operations around the world, in the efforts by the united states and others to prevent the gain and spread of weapons of massive destruction. in iran, north korea and other states. and in addressing emerging threats in space, cyberspace and elsewhere around the globe. to confront these challenges, and to lead the cia through a difficult budget tear period after a decade of major budget increases, president obama nominated john brennan. his closest adviser on
we'll have plenty of time i'm sure to talk about chuck hagel. meantime, let's take the audience to the senate hearing and senator dianne feinstein. >> because of the added importance of having steady leadership at an organization that conducts most of its business outside of the public arena. intelligence is critical to the successful draw down in afghanistan, to the brutal war going on within's syria's borders, across north africa where the attacks of benghazi and hostage situation in...
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Feb 7, 2013
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chuck hagel conference has been delayed. hagel has not spoken to the president since his contentious confirmation hearings. he still meeting with senators to shore up the votes. >>> senator mork yoe rubio of florida will be delivering the gop response to president obama's state of the union address. rubio will speak first in english and he'll also prerecord a version in spanish for the spanish language network. >>> scott brown declined to say if he would run for governor of massachusetts next year. he hinted about a political future telling politicalo, i'm no dead. >>> there will be a new senator sworn in today for massachusetts, cowan will fill the john kerry seat until a special election in june. >>> on tuesday, maryland's two senators will get the spoils of victory for the baltimore ravens beating the san francisco 49ers. california senators barbara boxer and dianne feinstein will deliver crabs, napa valley wine, sow dough bread and cheese to the winners. >>> thomas massy of kentucky is sponsoring a new bill that will leg
chuck hagel conference has been delayed. hagel has not spoken to the president since his contentious confirmation hearings. he still meeting with senators to shore up the votes. >>> senator mork yoe rubio of florida will be delivering the gop response to president obama's state of the union address. rubio will speak first in english and he'll also prerecord a version in spanish for the spanish language network. >>> scott brown declined to say if he would run for governor of...
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Feb 14, 2013
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hagel is at the center of it, but it's about much more than just chuck hagel. andrea. >> let me just interject also, kelly, that there is an issue here. the defense ministers meet at nato next week in brussels. they want chuck hagel, the administration wants chuck hagel, the new defense secretary to be leading this going forward. they don't want to have to ask leon panetta, who is still the defense secretary, to go and lead the delegation as a lame-duck. chris, this gets to entrance, and that's why, among other reasons, the white house is so frustrated, and those who have been raising these benghazi issues are really holding the white house hostage on when did the president call and was he up all night? those are the kinds of questions they've been asking. hagel had nothing to do with benghazi. >> absolutely true, andrea, but i would say, look, this is -- kelly used the phrase leverage point, and whether you like it or not, that's what republicans view this as. i would say that the white house has two very clear choices. they either say okay, we will give until
hagel is at the center of it, but it's about much more than just chuck hagel. andrea. >> let me just interject also, kelly, that there is an issue here. the defense ministers meet at nato next week in brussels. they want chuck hagel, the administration wants chuck hagel, the new defense secretary to be leading this going forward. they don't want to have to ask leon panetta, who is still the defense secretary, to go and lead the delegation as a lame-duck. chris, this gets to entrance, and...
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it's a rough room here now, and it's a rough room for hagel yesterday. i agree with you that it was strange that there were some things that didn't come up, but not have north africa come nup a really substantive way, to not have the budget come nup a really substantive way was a problem for chuck hagel, and, you know, his ability or inability to bring those subjects to the fore on his own, i guess that is on him. i'm with you, i guess. >> ben, the "new york times" -- sorry. in the washington post jonathan bernstein -- >> let's get that right. "new york times". >> big difference. i'm not saying which one is better. jonathan bernstein writes in the washington post the confirmation process for chuck hagel is a good example of just how far off the rails executive-branch nomination and confirmation has gone. there's basically little in it for the senate when senators turn nominations into a series of gotcha moments and efforts to extrapolate the broad political philosophy of executive branch nominees." >> i have only been covering politics for i guess, 12 ye
it's a rough room here now, and it's a rough room for hagel yesterday. i agree with you that it was strange that there were some things that didn't come up, but not have north africa come nup a really substantive way, to not have the budget come nup a really substantive way was a problem for chuck hagel, and, you know, his ability or inability to bring those subjects to the fore on his own, i guess that is on him. i'm with you, i guess. >> ben, the "new york times" -- sorry. in...
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Feb 5, 2013
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john mccain tried to humiliate nominee chuck hagel. and this is just the beginning. >> are you going to answer the question, senator hagel. the question is were you right or wrong? that's a pretty straight forward question. >> but karma caught up with mccain quickly. about an hour after that, he berated hagel. here's how rand paul reacted to mccain's comments. let's listen. >> i find the argument spurious and really frankly absurd. >> on laura ingram's radio show, louisiana senator marco rubi on the emigration issue. >> i love and respect marco, i think he's amazingly naive. >> wow, in other words, he cares about hispanics. in a colossal put down, chris chistie hung the blame for post-sandy suffering squarely on republicans. >> there's only one group to blame for the continued suffering of these innocent victims. the house majority and their speaker, john boehner. >> you know, joy, this was an old democratic problem. >> yes. >> it was called democrats in disarray. you could put it up on every newspaper, every evening news show. >> you
john mccain tried to humiliate nominee chuck hagel. and this is just the beginning. >> are you going to answer the question, senator hagel. the question is were you right or wrong? that's a pretty straight forward question. >> but karma caught up with mccain quickly. about an hour after that, he berated hagel. here's how rand paul reacted to mccain's comments. let's listen. >> i find the argument spurious and really frankly absurd. >> on laura ingram's radio show,...
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Feb 18, 2013
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the president could with draw the nomination of chuck hagel as defense security. he is so ignorant of the real enemy we face he believe that is iran can be trusted and israel can't. high would be better suited for taking tickets at yellow stone than defending against the treats. ip hope you will call and e-mail your senator to use common sense and while acknowledging that the president has the privilege to name his team. he doesn't have the right to put people on his team that betray the trust of the american people and the people of the world. that's my few. >> most of the over 4,000 persons who are on board of the carnival cruise ship are either home or on the way home. it is going to be a long time before they forget their ordeal. >> more than 4000 people stuck on a cruise ship that is dead in the water. a fire knocked out the ship's power. >> she was crying and said they had power or running water and no way to use the bathroom. >> people are sleeping on the ship's deck. >> she wanted her mommy to come and get her and i couldn't of course,! tug boats are towin
the president could with draw the nomination of chuck hagel as defense security. he is so ignorant of the real enemy we face he believe that is iran can be trusted and israel can't. high would be better suited for taking tickets at yellow stone than defending against the treats. ip hope you will call and e-mail your senator to use common sense and while acknowledging that the president has the privilege to name his team. he doesn't have the right to put people on his team that betray the trust...
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Feb 1, 2013
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but i was-- it was a lousy performance by chuck hagel. he obviously decided he wasn't going get confrontational. when ted cruz, the junior senator from texas basically accused him of dishonesty, raised questions about his honor, and-- the idea that chuck hagel, that david and i know didn't say wait a minute, you know, and he did at the last question, i'm out of time now but let me ask you about this about your speeches and what you reported and didn't report. i mean at that point chuck hagel says let me tell you, you know, you've just raised a question, i don't care about time or time being out this is my time to tell you, you know, that you are absolutely wrong and-- and that was just missing completely. >> woodruff: so there is some reporting that hagel this is a deliberate strategy on hassle's part. >> it was. >> woodruff: not to be con fron taetional you are saying if that is what it was t didn't work. >> the senators were awful. we just had the highest suicide rate in the history of the u.s. military. we had one senator joe done oly,
but i was-- it was a lousy performance by chuck hagel. he obviously decided he wasn't going get confrontational. when ted cruz, the junior senator from texas basically accused him of dishonesty, raised questions about his honor, and-- the idea that chuck hagel, that david and i know didn't say wait a minute, you know, and he did at the last question, i'm out of time now but let me ask you about this about your speeches and what you reported and didn't report. i mean at that point chuck hagel...
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the reporter who fueled a bogus story about chuck hagel. david brooks has second thoughts about his column and a fox commentator apologizes for an outrageous remark. media monitor is straight ahead. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! but when i cook up some beef, ketchup, relish and cheese, cover it with crescent dough and pow! cheeseburger crescent casserole. double awesome. pillsbury crescents. let the making begin. >>> time now for the media monitor. our weekly look at the hits and errors in the news business. one of the bogus charges against chuck hagel, president obama's pentagon nominee, is that he had taken money from a group called friends of hamas. now new york daily news reported dan says he was the source of the rumor when he sarcastically made the suggestion and later saw a headline on the site breitbart.com, secret hagel donor. white house spokesman ducks questions on friends of hamas. that attrib
the reporter who fueled a bogus story about chuck hagel. david brooks has second thoughts about his column and a fox commentator apologizes for an outrageous remark. media monitor is straight ahead. [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus liquid gels speeds relief to your worst cold symptoms plus has a decongestant for your stuffy nose. thanks. that's the cold truth! but when i cook up some beef, ketchup, relish and cheese, cover it with crescent dough and pow! cheeseburger crescent casserole....
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. >>> former republican senator chuck hagel is expected to be sworn in as the next secretary of defense today. only four republicans voted for hagel. >>> and for the first time, the obama administration is reportedly considering providing direct assistance to elements of the syrian opposition. secretary of state john kerry is in france today. a decision on this shift in u.s. policy is expected tomorrow when kerry attends a conference on syria in rome. kerry has been consulting with european leaders. u.s. officials say the administration is considering sending tens of millions of dollars in nonlethal assistance to the rebels fighting the assad regime. >>> the latest blast of winter weather making its way toward the great lakes. the latest storm dumped essentially inches of snow across the plains. it's being blamed for at least three deaths and has knocked out power to more than 100,000 homes and businesses. teresa garcia reports. >> reporter: a major winter storm is dumping a layer of heavy wet snow on parts of the country still struggling from the last round. plows tried to keep up in k
. >>> former republican senator chuck hagel is expected to be sworn in as the next secretary of defense today. only four republicans voted for hagel. >>> and for the first time, the obama administration is reportedly considering providing direct assistance to elements of the syrian opposition. secretary of state john kerry is in france today. a decision on this shift in u.s. policy is expected tomorrow when kerry attends a conference on syria in rome. kerry has been consulting...
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but i was-- it was a lousy performance by chuck hagel. he obviously decided he wasn't going get confrontational. when ted cruz, the junior senator from texas basically accused him of dishonesty raised questions about his honor, and-- the idea that chuck hagel that david and i know didn't say wait a minute you know and he did at the last question i'm out of time now but let me ask you about this about your speeches and what you reported and didn't report. i mean at that point chuck hagel says let me tell you you know, you've just raised a question, i don't care about time or time being out this is my time to tell you, you know, that you are absolutely wrong and-- and that was just missing completely. >> woodruff: so there is some reporting that hagel this is a deliberate strategy on hassle's part. >> it was. >> woodruff: not to be con fron taetional you are saying if that is what it was t didn't work. >> the senators were awful. we just had the highest suicide rate in the history of the u.s. military. we had one senator joe done oly, most
but i was-- it was a lousy performance by chuck hagel. he obviously decided he wasn't going get confrontational. when ted cruz, the junior senator from texas basically accused him of dishonesty raised questions about his honor, and-- the idea that chuck hagel that david and i know didn't say wait a minute you know and he did at the last question i'm out of time now but let me ask you about this about your speeches and what you reported and didn't report. i mean at that point chuck hagel says...